Might be a Controversial Post

What would you do if your friend told you they were gay?  Would you stop talking to them? 

I read this article in Kuwait Time [Link] and that is what got me started on the gay issue, then my thoughts started to flow.

A couple of weeks ago we had a really extremly heated discussing about the gay “scene” in kuwait.  There were talks that they were going to close down Messila Beach because of the amount of lesbians that go there, and its their “gathering” place.  Some ppl thought that it was a good thing, that it was a first step in Kuwait .  In my opinion, I think its just foolish, the thing about Kuwait is that we don’t try to fix the problem from the root, we remove the top layer only and expect it to go away.  If we close down Messila, they will find another place to gather.  Are they going to close down schools, cuz I think thats where everything starts?  Are they going to close malls?  Restaurants? 

First of all, gays have been inexistance for a very very very very VERY long time, and I don’t think that closing down one or two places is going to fix it.  Ya3ni okay there might be some issues with the whole gay issue, that its 7arram, and its ruining society (there are a lot of bigger issues that are ruining society I don’t see them crying about that!!).  But there are some ppl that are

1. Born with it (extra testosterone or extra estrogen) or another health issue .. born with both organs instead of 1
2.  Have had an experience in their youth that scarred them for life
3. Have issues at home and are trying to find a venting place
4.  Like Greyshorts said .. they are “summer lesbians”  they do it out of boredom and/or sexual frustration

Yaboon “yimni3ooon” gayness.  We use that word A L O T in kuwait “Mamnoo3″, bas il mamnoo3 marghoob right?  They banned alcohol, does that mean it doesn’t exist?  No, it still exists in black markets, it might be harder to get then if it was legal, BUUUT its not regulated, which means that any one could buy alcohol.  Ya3ni if I was a 15 year old little kid I could call a dealer and buy alcohol.  He doesn’t care i’m 15, as long as he gets that cash in his hands to hell with what I do with the stuff he’s giving me.  Not only that,ppl started to make alcohol in their homes and sell them, now the person who buys it will have no idea what he is drinking, the percentage of alcohol in there, if it will make him sick. Okay I know he;s not supposed to be drinking it in the first place but well a lot of ppl in Kuwait drink.

I hate that word .. Mamnoo3 .. Banned .. Min3aw this and Min3aw that .. what the hell is that going to solve?  You’re just going to keep banning until you have nothing to ban and no problems solved!  I don’t want to solve a problem for 5 minutes and then have it erupt like a volcano.  We all want quick fixes but we all know that doesn’t happen.  Revolutions/changes might seem like they happen over night, but they don’t they take years and years of planning, and it should be long lasting.

This lead to a friend bring up another very valid point.  A couple of years ago, they tried to solve the “ti7irishing” issue by banning guys from entering malls and places and leaving them for families only.  Again they removed the frosting off the cake, and it just made it tasteless.

That didn’t solve anything.  Yes okay I might be able to shop in peace for an hour or two, but what are guys going to be banned forever?  No they weren’t, and truthfully as soon as a person would step out of the mall they would get harrassed.  So they found that rule to be worthless.

I know that I talked about a lot of different issues here, but they all deal with the same thing trying to solve the problems in Kuwait quickly.  They might seem like they have nothing to do with each other but they are all somehow interrelated.

To answer the question I asked at the top, I wouldn’t care if my friend told me their gay.  Thats their sexual orientation and their body.

p.s – after much thought and much debate, I am against legalizing alcohol in kuwait … for now .. we can’t regulate ANYTHING … ya3ni they can’t have rules tht will be followed which will make it easier for anyone to buy it.  Unless we have strict rules that are implemented (I am waiting for the day) then the legalization of alcohol will not be helpful Kuwait.

 

17 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. SpiKeY
    Apr 29, 2008 @ 11:12:42

    chirp…

    being gay, drinking alcohol or getting high is considered a sin…whether we believe in it or not thats an individuals belief…however at the end its our countries religion so we can’t do anything about that..

    now lets say some ppl aint religious…well morals comes in…I heard about massilah..and i heard that most “lesbains” there are fake…(i heard it form true lesbians)….and if someone tells me he/she are gay..i really won’t care..its up to them…am not here to judge

    as for alcohol..I do not want to see it even in a million years in kuwait…why? because i don’t wanna end up seeing drunk guys walking the streets and I have a family….without alcohol and am scared from what might happen from guys…whether fee regulations or not…drinking and going out will be “ma95ara”….and plus I don’t want to see ppl walking barefoot, vomiting and peeing on the streets…I’ve seen this attidude in many European countries…and I do not want to see that behavior here…

    And should we allow drugs?? or the C-class ones at least?

    at the end its not about the countries laws…its the humans law that changes a countries attitude…

    Reply

  2. skinnybumblebee
    Apr 29, 2008 @ 13:35:52

    That’s the issue with Kuwait they care about the image too much , about who said this and who said that. Which as you said means solving problems with the shortcut button, ya3ni huge consequences in the future. like “under the carpet” theory.

    i heard this sentence alot.
    Do the “mistake bil khashashi a7san min jidam il awadim”

    Since the mistake is inevitable. But from this sentence you get their patterns of thinking as along as everything looks perfect from the outside we are good to go.

    Blekh you need more than a revolution to merely change the thought.

    As for the gay issue. if its a health or mental problem it can be fixed or treated , we all overcome problems we shouldnt use history or truma as an excuse especially when the indivisual is not a “baby” …. but then again they like it. nothing will change ;p

    Reply

  3. Prophet
    Apr 29, 2008 @ 15:00:39

    WARNING:LONG-ASS COMMENT

    ‘The gays’. That term encompasses it all. I think the term is derogatory. It demonstrates how all homosexual people are clumped into this almost substandard category. Being homosexual is not all that somebody is, its part of them. Its not who they are, its part of what they are.

    It’s like saying ‘the blacks’ in the ‘separate but equal’ era of the US. It’s the exact same thing. In fact, the whole situation is the same. There is this group of people that is different. The general population not only refuses to accept these people but also decides to persecute them just because they are different.

    Now, some people may argue that homosexuality is a choice (as opposed to race). The whole choice of homosexuality debate is never-ending. I won’t even bother getting into it. But I will say that even if a person decides to participate in homosexual relations behind closed doors, what’s the harm in it? As long as it’s adult and consensual, who cares?

    ‘It’s a sin’. Well, seeing as homosexuality is a ‘victimless sin’ why not let God handle it? Why arrest them? Who’s going to benefit from that?

    Retarded Islamists walk around and blame homosexuality on ‘Westernization’ (as usual). Jeez, those ‘Islamists’ should really pick up a Quran sometime. There’s a little story there in there about two cities called Sodom and Gomorrah. Those cities were in the Middle East (maybe they misread it as Middle America). If anything, the whole Sodom and Gomorrah story shows us how long homosexuality has been around here and still hasn’t gone away. If God didn’t get rid of homosexuality by decimating whole cities, what makes bigoted lawmakers think anything they do is going to?

    Now, let’s discuss Kuwaiti homosexuality. Here’s what I think:

    True homosexuality is the intrinsic feeling of preferring to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex. I think that a lot of guys and girls participate in homosexual acts not because they prefer it but because it is what’s available (just like in prison).

    Kuwaiti society strongly discourages the mixing of males and females (as is demonstrated by our segregated schools and segregated everything).
    What do you expect a developing male/female to do to release they’re sexual energy and they’re growing need for physical affection?

    Once a boy/girl has committed their first homosexual act that’s where it gets psychologically complicated. They just did something that was physically and sexually pleasurable but, being raised with certain social morals, mentally unacceptable. They will either:

    • Compartmentalize and go into denial: Like guys who deny having homosexual tendencies because they were ‘on top’.

    • Rationalize their behavior and seek validation: I would think a lot of ‘boya’ girls do that. They decide that they are gay and dress and act a certain way in order to fit in with the ‘lesbian’ community (which is the only place where what they did is considered acceptable and normal).

    Another unfortunate factor that contributes to a person’s homosexuality is sexual abuse. When children are sexually abused they often become sexually confused. Let’s say a little boy is sexually abused by his father.

    Now, sexual abuse can mess a kid up in any which way: He could go into shock and completely shut down, he could rationalize the event and decide that it’s acceptable (even wanted), or:

    The child recognizes the event as abuse but can help but associate the homosexual act with a father’s love. He grows up, and he wants to be with men because deep within his mind he is seeking those feelings of paternal affection (because Daddy told him ‘this is how I show you that I love you’).

    Messed up to the 11th degree, I know. But that’s how it is. So in my opinion people who were sexually abused as children are not necessarily homosexual but probably sexually confused.

    Banning homosexual gatherings isn’t going to do shit. If they really want to get together they will.

    What the government should do is allow and encourage free mingling of the sexes at an early age. Put the kids in a healthy, respectful co-ed environment. Don’t make the opposite sex such a mystery. And don’t assume that you can do nothing and that society and school will mold your child into a well-rounded individual (or a mini-you).

    Also, counseling for people who have sexual identity issues. I’m not talking about the ‘conversion’ crap that seeks to whip the gay out of you. I mean a safe place where people can get professional help and discuss their sexuality (if it bothers them) without fear of retribution or judgment.

    Last of all, and most importantly: Learn to live and let live. Learn some tolerance. So you don’t like what gay people do. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, you just have to accept it. They’re not going away. They’re here. They’re queer. Get used to it.
    ________________

    I don’t particularly care if someone is homo or hetero. I draw the line at non-consensual sex (children and animals).

    I don’t think I could ever be attracted to a girl. I can’t. I just don’t see the appeal.

    But just because I don’t feel it, it doesn’t mean others can’t or shouldn’t.

    What amazes me is when ‘religious’ people say:
    “Homosexuality is wrong. It’s wrong because it…. its… its just wrong! I don’t understand it. It doesn’t make sense! It’s unnatural as designated by God.”

    I would think that if anybody could accept things that they don’t understand it would be religious people. Isn’t that what basis of religion is? There is no way you could understand God or fathom his existence, and yet you accept Him.

    And c’mon people, if God wanted you to think that homosexuality was so unnatural then he wouldn’t have made so many animals behave homosexually.

    Most every animal species has incidence of homosexuality. Some species (ex. Bonobos –wiki it!) even have homosexuality engraved in their societies.

    What’s more natural than nature? Or do you want to believe that animals too been watching too much Orbit and have become ‘Westernized’?

    *Idea*: I think I’m going to make this today’s post on my blog!

    Reply

  4. Trackback: It shouldn’t be controversial « The Chronicles of Random: Resurrection
  5. Big Pearls
    Apr 29, 2008 @ 18:44:20

    hmmm very contraversial..We really need to regulate the rules in our country..it is so out of control.

    Reply

  6. Hasan.B
    Apr 29, 2008 @ 20:15:54

    To answer the first question; Yes I would stop talking to them. I will try to talk to him/her about it, if it did not work then yes I would stop talking to them. I am against closing the place or these ways of dealing with things. There are other ways on how to be dealing with, plus I do disagree with most of the reasons you specified for being gay, they are never good enough. Alcohol is another matter, cause I consider it a substance that should be banned, just like cocaine and smoking. Yes 15 years old kids can get alcohol in kuwait, but this can happen in a country were alcohol is legal as well. The rates of liver diseases, alcohol dependance syndrome and road traffic accidents (alcohol related) are MUCH less than in other countries were alcohol is aloud. There are somethings that should be banned but definitely not that place or others. Plus I fill up my car in that station next to it so its nice to see good looking girls (sometimes) coming to the place all tanned.

    Reply

  7. q8ya
    Apr 29, 2008 @ 22:37:10

    ok so i have to agree and disagree in some topics (but i still respect ur opinion )

    there are some banning issues that are not necessary in kuwait thats true like making malls for families only and the segregation issues and so forth, but there are certain major issues that must be banned since we are an islamic country i do believe that there are certain thing must be banned.

    the the alcohol is against our religion if it was legalized then kids might think its ok to drink because they will see it, sure there are poeple who make them illegally but at least they are a portion of people who are not seen in public so people can keep their kids safe, so the best solution is that the law must be strict and be applied to everyone no exception.

    now the gay issue have you been to massila village? its really sad to see them like that i blame their families because i believe that gayness is a psychological issue that must be treated immediately because i think it is very wrong. the solution is that parents must pay attention to their kids and schools must raise the issue and no they should not close messila village because thats not fair for the other kids.

    and finally to answer your question if my friend told me she was gay i would try to talk to her and give her some advice if it didn’t work and she was a bad influence then i will not talk to her, but i still believe that i would not know what happens until i was put in that situation. ;)

    Reply

  8. Prophet
    Apr 30, 2008 @ 11:10:23

    Hasan B: How can you say that liver disease, alcoholism, and alcohol related traffic accidents are much less than in countries where alcohol is legal?

    Most people here in Kuwait would rather die than report having a drug/alcohol/sexual related problem or disease. Just because people here don’t report their problems or get treated for them that does not mean that these problems don’t exist.

    And in terms of alcohol related accidents, thanks to was6a almost anybody can get away with that (if not scot-free then atleast without it being considered DUI).

    Do you think that Hep C and AIDs are not rampant in Kuwait just because it is considered ‘unislamic’ to have sex before marriage?

    Just because you close your eyes and say that something should be a certain way does not make it true. It is policies of intolerance and the social stigma attached with admitting that you have a problem which encourages the ignorance of the severity of these problems and the lack of education that could prevent them.

    Hasan, I know you were probably raised into thinking that things like homosexuality, drinking..etc are wrong, and so you say that you’d stop talking to a friend that admits he’s gay. But I just think you should consider this one thing:

    You reject and dismiss people who you find generally good (your friend) because they admit to you that they have a ‘problem’ (you see their homosexuality as a problem). Do you think there will never come a day that you will find or do something wrong (not necessarily homosexual)? And that you will want to turn to your friends for support? Would you be fine with them rejecting you in your time of need?

    Reply

  9. Prophet
    Apr 30, 2008 @ 11:28:09

    I think that all forms of drugs should be legalized. But this legalization comes with a condition (which Kuwait will never be able to fill): Proper drug-education and regulation.

    People should be fully aware and scientifically educated on the physical/mental impact that drugs can have upon them. One they are aware of these consequences, they should have opportunity to choose whether or not they want to indulge in these drugs.

    I don’t believe in re-incarnation. I only have this life to live. And I want to live it free. I shouldn’t have to live my life with restraints that others deem fit. I should not be able to do something only if it directly encroaches on others’ well-being.

    Even if we drop the recreational aspect of illegal drugs, their untapped medical potential remains an issue. We will never truly know the full extent to which these drugs can IMPROVE the quality of human life unless proper testing and trials can ensue.

    Reply

  10. SpiKeY
    Apr 30, 2008 @ 12:56:32

    Prophet…

    how can you say we should legalize drugs..are you serious??

    ok lets legalize incest, pedophillia and all that sick stuff too madam you want freedom….

    Reply

  11. G.E&B
    Apr 30, 2008 @ 13:24:24

    this is a comment on one tiny issue:
    I’m all for banning “masculine” women from Messila beach and the ice skating rink. Not because it has anything to do with limiting homosexuality but because as a Muslim woman who practices hijab these places have been designated for women only.

    Unfortunately, they have turned into “gay” nightclubs. Honestly, if you’ve ever been you know how bad it is.

    In general, I don’t have a problem with gay nightclubs, because I choose not to go there…the problem is people like my poor parents who allow their 13 year old girl to go to a waterpark//ice skating rink with her friends not knowing that its a freggin’ gay scene!

    Reply

  12. q8ya
    Apr 30, 2008 @ 15:44:32

    prophet, “legalize drugs” its already bad as it is what makes you think that it’s gonna be better if it was legalized? yes they should educate them about drugs but they shouldn’t throw them in the trap to.

    i believe neither alcohol nor drugs should be legalized il7imdila 3ayshen ib deera mafeeha hal kharabee6 ili yabi khal iroo7 bara even though some people are making alcohol at their houses there are serious consequences like jail!! and thats the place where they ought to be

    Reply

  13. N.
    May 01, 2008 @ 08:41:12

    I wouldn’t stop talking to my friend if he/she tells me he/she is gay. I might be shocked at first.. but regardless.. he is my friend, even though it might be awkward I’m sure, especially if its a guy. I’d just try to be there for them.. I’m sure if a friend told me that it means that they feel they have to tell someone, and they need support or help with something.. I don’t accept homosexuality.. but I wont judge the people I know because of it. However, if a friend of mine was gay, I would just prefer not to know about it.

    If the issue started from being like in a prison, like how Prophet said then it is just sad. Okay sure segregation is making things worse, what about the concept of marriage? People now see marriage as a very strange thing, and a lot of people are starting to fear it. It has become harder for the man and woman to get married, because also it has become harder for a man and a woman to get to know each other. sure in the older days there wasn’t much of a luxury for people to get to know each other, but mostly, they knew what they were getting into and people were clear as day and it was easier to know someone just from being with them for 5 minutes. These days things are different, you could be with someone years and not really know them too well.. this has caused ppl to doubt getting married or increased divorces. Of course let us not forget the issue of mahar.. if we want ppl to get married at an early age (considering the fact that they know each other well enough..) the mahar (dowry).

    How can a teenager (18+) afford the current dowry that is going around? Impossible unless he was already wealthy or has his parents to help him out. [I know I'm going off topic.. but this is important] Also in current days 18 is not as mature.. as 18 in the old days. Things have changed.. and THIS is the real problem, not Mesilla.. a place shut down, closed, opened, moved or whaever is not going to have an impact on humanity!

    As for the legalization of drugs and alchohol. All I say i, “Salul!” No I’m kidding :p I am against the legalization of such substances. There should be more regulation, and tighter security. That is all there is to it.

    Reply

  14. Chirp
    May 01, 2008 @ 09:11:42

    Okay I can’t reply to all of you guys, but each person has their own opinion to everything.

    I have never been to mesilla water village so I don’t know shino il wath3 hnaak .. I only heard …

    Reply

  15. Prophet
    May 04, 2008 @ 11:55:20

    SPIKEY:

    I do want freedom. What’s wrong with that? As long as I’m not physically harming others, I should have every right to do what I like. Just because I am going against your ideals does not make it sick.

    Yes, I am serious in suggesting drugs should be legalized but, as I said, only under the condition that there be proper education and regulation first (which Kuwait won’t be able to do in the foreseeable future).
    And as for legalizing pedophilia – as I said before – I do not approve of sexual contact with those that are unable to given informed consent (ie. children and animals). Pedophilia is an act that physically harms others (kids) and therefore is unacceptable.

    Spikey, are you that afraid to free your mind? Can’t you fathom the idea, that maybe, just maybe, that the ideas and thoughts that have been passed on to you by society, your parents, religion…etc. are incorrect/unnecessary?

    Q8ya:

    Just because you legalize something does not mean it is going to get worse.

    If drugs are legalized, the government can more effectively regulate their manufacturing and distribution. If drugs were manufactured by monitored, reputable companies then:

    1. New jobs would be created (from farming to pharmaceuticals) – which would boost the economy.

    2. Drugs would no longer be cut with dangerous chemicals (ie. rat poison).

    3. These new and relatively safer forms of drugs that are readily available to consumers would put drug-lords out of business. Why would anybody buy shady drugs off of the street when they could get certified drugs from a reputable source?

    4. The drugs are dispensed at the proper dosages with proper warnings.

    5. As long as drugs are illegal: Drug-lords are only going to get richer. People are going to keep buying unsafe drugs because they have no alternative. We will never know the true extent of drug use. All the potential benefits of illegal drugs will remain unknown because we arguable to test them (ie. Ecstasy as a psychologically therapeutic medicine, marijuana for mental and physical benefits…etc.)

    The purpose in legalizing drugs is not to let drug-addicts do whatever they want with no consequence. The purpose in legalizing drugs is to improve national and individual quality of life (economically, medically, spiritually,…etc.)

    Reply

  16. SpiKeY
    May 06, 2008 @ 01:54:38

    prophet:

    Being free and talking about oh am not harming anyone isnt correct….when you are drugged up and you end up killing someone (while u are driving under the influence for example) does not make it correct coz its was freedom of choice…

    See now you are ont allowing kids who are under 18 to have sex..yet many under 18 do it and want it and know it…but does it make it right when a gurl who is 12 has sex and she knows what she is doing?? no ……

    am not scared at all…bel3aks…I think I reached a point of freedom that I am happy with…I always said that an individual is not his family…he has to learn….

    And I for one…I read alot…i read about many many religions…aand i mean deep reading…i understood how different cultures act…I know how my family thinks…yet…I became a believer of Islam because I read….Am open minded..I was not a bit changed due to society, family or religion….the differce between you and me…I know freedom should have limits…because with no limits….well…i think hell will be set loose…

    Reply

  17. Prophet
    May 07, 2008 @ 11:39:19

    Spikey:

    I didn’t say kids under 18 couldn’t have sex. I said adults cannot have sex with kids (thats what pedophilia means). If a 12 year old has sex with a 12 year old – I don’t think that should be considered a crime. Even though, i don’t think its a good idea (because I don’t think 12 year olds are physically capable of fully understanding the impact of sexual relations), I don’t think it is should be considered a crime.

    I never said that killing anybody was an acceptable freedom. Driving under the influence should be considered a crime because the act, itself can physically harm others. But just because somebody is ‘drugged up’ doesn’t mean they are going to kill someone. Not everybody who ‘drugs up’ drives. There is such a thing as “responsible drug use” you know.

    I’m sure that there are many, many differences between you and I. But we both agree on the need to set limits (I don’t know where you got the thought that I think otherwise). What we disagree on is what that limit is. My limit is: As long as what you do does not harm others – which if you look up to my previous comment, i said on the second line. Its not possible to have a proper dialogue if you don’t even know what I’m saying.

    Its good for you that you have found the religious ideology that makes you feel fulfilled. But forcing others to be bound by the rules of your religion is unfair. I’m for rules if they have rational backing, but “because God said so” doesn’t cut it.

    Reply

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